Nirvana in Fire

[teyla]

I have posted fic! I wrote this fic two years ago and finally managed to get it beta'ed and ready for posting. Better late than never, huh?

In other news, I have joined the C-drama bandwagon.


That show gave me so many feelings, oh my god!! D: D:

Beware of spoilers, since I marathoned all 54 episodes in like two weeks and will be talking about all of it.

It took me a while to warm up to, well, most of the characters, really. My first fave was Lin Chen, and I was very upset when I learned he wouldn't be in most of the show. I liked Mei Changsu well enough, but it took till later in the show for me to get attached to him (I did get attached to him! Most definitely. Protect the sad man in grey. :| )

Meng Zhi was another quick fave, partially because he's lovely and partially because his facial hair is amazing. I really wanted to ship Mei Changsu/Meng Zhi for a while ... because I couldn't quite warm up to Jingyan? He seemed pretty boring in the beginning. I was more interested in Meng Zhi, as well as Xia Dong/Mu Nihuang. I still love those two and want all of the battle academy fic about them!

Around the absolutely heartbreaking disaster that was Jingrui's 25th birthday (how could you do this to him??) I got very invested in Jingrui/Yujin. They're like Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, though I do hope they got a better ending than those two. Jingrui makes me have many feelings, he's so sweet. I loved the conversation he had with Mei Changsu when he left for Southern Chu--the whole thing about "I liked you and I wanted you to like me back, but it's not like you owe me anything". Such a smart boy!

I finally got invested in Mei Changsu/Jingyan when they had their shouting match in the snow about freeing Wei Zheng. What a fantastic scene, and so well acted. Generally, the longer Mei Changsu didn't tell Jingyan who he really was, the more invested I got--it started to seem so fucking cruel and unnecessary, but at the same time it was obvious that Mei Changsu still loved Jingyan. So many good, conflicted feelings! I also really enjoyed Jingyan's development from an abrasive kid to someone who learns how to walk the fine line between being diplomatic and holding on to your values. Very good content indeed.

The culmination was great, so satisfying, and I really appreciated how few people this show needed to kill to get an emotional reaction from me. Sure, there was the whole Chiyan Army in the past, but on-screen death of beloved characters? I count one. Game of Thrones, take note.

That one of course still wasn't okay and needs fixing. I've already poked AO3 a little, but haven't quite found the fic that I want yet. There's also a few ideas I want to try out in fic myself. I'm not sure I'll manage to write a whole fic in this fandom--so much research, ahh--but I do wanna try my hand, at least.

And to make this a little more than just a feelings- and info-dump, here's a link to a blog post with a bunch of really adorable promo pictures that most of you have probably seen already, but that I was absolutely delighted to find: Cute promo pics this way.

Have you seen NiF? (If not, what are you doing reading this??) If you have, please talk to me about it! :D

Comments

[tinny]

Ah well. Everyone is passing me by with the cdrama obsessions now. :D

But Nirvana in Fire is definitely (I hear) by far the best of the lot, so yay.

I have not seen it and will not, because palace drama meh. But there are lots of people around here who have seen it and love it and the cdrama fandom in general is very active on dw.

You could start here: https://nirvana-in-fire.dreamwidth.org/

[teyla]

I am so sorry I ignored your recommendations to get into c-drama for such a long time. I had to get some podcast obsessions out of my system, first, apparently. xD

I did watch a few episodes of Guardian, too. I find it a little hard to sit through (I think I feel about the type of show it is similarly like you feel about palace drama), but the two leads are adorable, and I think I like Zhao Yunlan enough to stick around to see where this is going. It may just take me a while longer than NiF, which I got through within a week or two.

Thank you for the link! I'll poke around and see if I can find some people to talk to.

[tinny]

Yay! There are some good things to be found, once you manage to take the hurdle of foreign culture and storytelling tropes and subtitles.

I mean, it took me over a year to finally convince neery to watch Guardian with me, and now she is, so I'm very happy that happened! But now she managed to watch NiF this quickly (with you?), I'm all O_O how? :D

It always takes me ages to get through every drama. :D

I did watch a few episodes of Guardian, too. I find it a little hard to sit through (I think I feel about the type of show it is similarly like you feel about palace drama), but the two leads are adorable, and I think I like Zhao Yunlan enough to stick around to see where this is going.

Ha, I am always here to talk about Guardian. :D Glad you like it enough to stick with it for a bit! The first eps are a lot about the identity porn, and later it's all about the romance (while trying not to admit that it's all about the romance), and I love that so much. :D And of course it's full of tropes, like all cdramas, which I am pretty sure you will like. The loyalty kink is strong in this one. :D

I don't know where your main fandom base is, but the Guardian fandom is very active here, too, and some parts are still on tumblr, and *a lot* of people are on twitter.

[teyla]

But now she managed to watch NiF this quickly (with you?)
She's watching it with Spatz, as far as I know. She actually started before I did. I was looking for something to marathon, and I'd been meaning to check out Nirvana in Fire for ages, so I made her give me the YouTube playlist. I ended up finishing before she did--she's on ~ep 48 of 54 right now, I think.

Not to tell you to watch palace drama if you're not into it, but if you ever find yourself with some time on your hands--it might surprise you. There's definitely plotting and scheming, but the thing that I enjoy most about it is that there's never just plot. Everything that happens is always deeply, deeply personal and character-related. But, you know, ymmv, as with everything.

The first eps are a lot about the identity porn
That bit I don't even mind so much. I'm on episode 7 or something like that, and I find the monster-of-the-week format a little tiring--especially since the pacing tends to fail to build up much tension, so it's a lot of watching them wander from one location to the next while the plot happens around them. But I've been told that this gets better once the longer arcs start properly.

On the upside, I very much enjoy Zhao Yunlan's character archetype (what an absolutely horrible boy, he's delightful), and I'm a sucker for we-knew-each-other-in-another-life plots. Which, I'm not 100% spoiled that that's what it is, but there have been enough hints and vague spoilers for me to expect nothing less.

The loyalty kink is strong in this one.
I'm seeing first hints of this and I'm very much looking forward to it becoming a more prominent feature. Nirvana in Fire has some excellent loyalty kink, and I'm finding once again that, if done right, this is very much my shit. Fingers crossed that Guardian's brand of it will work for me!

I don't really have a main fandom base atm. I've been trying Twitter, but with everything that's going on in the world, doing fandom on Twitter is difficult right now. Glad to hear there's some activity on DW! I'll probably try to stick to that for now.

[tinny]

Not to tell you to watch palace drama if you're not into it, but if you ever find yourself with some time on your hands--it might surprise you.

Ah well. I seem to have let her talk me into watching the Untamed with her, which I want to watch even less, but we'll see. /o\

We still have to get through Guardian, where we have ... 8 eps left or something? So three or four more weeks.

And then I recced her HIStory3 Trapped - which you should absolutely totally watch, too, because it's hilarious.

I'm on episode 7 or something like that, and I find the monster-of-the-week format a little tiring--especially since the pacing tends to fail to build up much tension, so it's a lot of watching them wander from one location to the next while the plot happens around them. But I've been told that this gets better once the longer arcs start properly.

Did you get any further? How did you like it? I assume Eva made you watch the Ye Zun bits too, like she did Neery?

I very much like everything between 12 and 33, but the addiction really only hit me on ep 20, when Zhao Yunlan goes blind.

On the upside, I very much enjoy Zhao Yunlan's character archetype (what an absolutely horrible boy, he's delightful)

Oh god I hate him. :D But you're in good company, there are a lot of people in this fandom who adore him. That said, I honestly think the show would be a lot more boring if he was even a little less terrible. He hits exactly the right kind of 'don't take me seriously' for it to be fun to watch.

[teyla]

Aaaah I've been meaning to write an update with the admission that I tripped and fell into this fandom, aslkdjas. You will be sad to hear that it's 99% Zhao Yunlan's fault; he is exactly my type of character and I love him. I enjoyed watching him get more and more overwhelmed and clearly out of his depth the longer the show progressed; shouty Zhao Yunlan is very enjoyable to me.

So yes, I did finish the show. The more of it that I see (I have gone back and rewatched a few bits just to understand what the hell is happening), the more I want to scream at how bad it is--none of the plots hold together, the world building doesn't make sense, the villains are terrible, it's just. Aggravatingly nonsensical. xD But Zhu Yilong and Bai Yu manage to sell the ancient soulmates so well that it's still (mostly) enjoyable (ish), and I do enjoy the other characters, too--Lao Chu and Xiao Guo are great, but I also have a big soft spot for Lin Jing. He doesn't get enough credit, poor guy.

Anyway, the finale made me have complicated feelings. I will take a good self-sacrifice plot if it holds together, but this just ... doesn't. Not even a little bit. On the other hand, the scenes that happen and the acting that goes with them feed my id, so I have now sat down and written like 15k of fic where I project all my "this finale made no sense but was very emotionally distressing" feelings onto Zhao Yunlan (and, to a smaller degree, Shen Wei). I hope I can find a way to wrap it up so I can post it.

I seem to have let her talk me into watching the Untamed with her
Argh, I wanna watch that, too, but I am watching NiF with Eva right now, still have a bunch of Mei Changsu/Jingyan feelings, and am trying to manage my unexpected Guardian feels, so The Untamed will have to wait. I want to know who the hell "WWX" is, though, and what's so great about him. My entire Twitter timeline seems incapable of talking about anyone else.

HIStory3 Trapped is also on the list, and so is Detective L, if I can get my hands on it. I have so many shows to get through now. /o\

At some point, I may ask you for Mandarin resources, if that's okay. I have learned about 10 words of the language at this point and I'm already getting mad at the subtitles. I very much doubt that a fandom obsession with c-drama will last me long enough to properly learn Mandarin, but I am at least poking at a few apps. The language is so fascinating! My current favorite is shì bù shì, that's such a fun way of asking for confirmation.

[tinny]

Aaaah I've been meaning to write an update with the admission that I tripped and fell into this fandom, aslkdjas.

\o/ Better late than never. :D I mean, I told everyone so since mid-2018, but... :D (I admit cdrama is an acquired taste. No blame.)

-none of the plots hold together, the world building doesn't make sense, the villains are terrible, it's just. Aggravatingly nonsensical. xD

Oh god so much yes to that.

Zhu Yilong and Bai Yu manage to sell the ancient soulmates so well that it's still (mostly) enjoyable (ish),

I am no longer objective on that point (and haven't been for years). :D I mean, the point in ep20, when Zhao Yunlan asks for Shen Wei, and he takes his hand and says "I'm here" - probably ruined me forever. THE LOVE! (Now if they were just allowed to kiss, that would have been perfect.)

I am so in love with Zhu Yilong, but Bai Yu is also amazing and much more relatable (and woke) as a person, so I kind of keep oscillating between the two without knowing how to quit either of them.

Anyway, the finale made me have complicated feelings. I will take a good self-sacrifice plot if it holds together, but this just ... doesn't. Not even a little bit.

Oh god. I never managed to finish the 30 days of Guardian meme, but I did do the "my thoughts on the finale" part, because damn I hated it. Mostly for Doylish reasons, though, because *I just did not get what they were trying to tell me*. It was not done in a way that my (Western) expectations were able to understand.

The post is here: https://tinny.dreamwidth.org/565676.html

I keep thinking I should finish the meme one day, but I never seem to get around to it.

Yay for writing a fix-it! I am firmly rooted in RPF-land, but I love everyone who can write plotty Guardian fic.

and am trying to manage my unexpected Guardian feels, so The Untamed will have to wait.

Yes, yes, one thing at a time.

My entire Twitter timeline seems incapable of talking about anyone else.

I am not on twitter, but the ones who are talking about Guardian and its actors would be fandoestrans and deeperfriedkoi (both currently helping with the novel translation), unnaye, qik1337, and then BaiYuUpdate and xiaolongbao666 . Also wenella_subs .

if I can get my hands on it

Take your time. DetL is on youtube, HIStory is on viki. Not hard to get at all.


I'm already getting mad at the subtitles.

You are watching with solo's subs, though, right? She posted them to sid_guardian. If you filter for her name, you'll find them easily. The original yt subs just suck. The viki ones are relatively okay.

At some point, I may ask you for Mandarin resources, if that's okay.

Lots of people on DW have started learning Mandarin because of Guardian. There's even a comm now: guardian_learning . We haven't finished transcribing the hardsubs yet, but we're up to ep 16 already, so there is progress. (Mostly from other people, but I am trying to help.)

I very much doubt that a fandom obsession with c-drama will last me long enough to properly learn Mandarin

Considering I've been learning it for 20 years and not gotten very far,... yes, I agree. :D But lots of people around here are trying, and it is fun to learn together, so. Go do it!

The language is so fascinating! My current favorite is shì bù shì, that's such a fun way of asking for confirmation.

It is! I love it so much! Its grammar is so different from ours, it's absolutely fascinating. Completely impossible to translate because of its immense context-sensitivity, but so much fun.

I am not very up to date on learning tools (although guardian_learning has an anki deck and other helpful links), but if you are looking for reading tools, I use those two extensively:

the mandarin popup dictionary addon (https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/zhongwen-chinese-english/)
and the baidu translator (https://fanyi.baidu.com/#zh/en/)

[teyla]

probably ruined me forever. THE LOVE!
That is a very good scene. Generally the blind arc is highly enjoyable and has good moments. I've found by now that if I rewatch select bits, I can properly enjoy it without getting annoyed by the nonsensical-ness of the show. xD

Bai Yu is also amazing and much more relatable (and woke) as a person
I know next to nothing about either of them (and sooort of probably want to keep it that way; I don't enjoy celebrity crushes for a variety of reasons), but I have been very much enjoying the random pics I occasionally come across of Bai Yu slouching around at some airport in a frayed flannel shirt, too-small glasses, and slippers. That's a whole mood.

I read your post on the finale! I still want to comment, so at my snail's pace, that may happen at some point in the next three months. >_>

Yay for writing a fix-it!
That fic has totally gotten away from me and has just crossed the 40k words mark. I am wrapping it up now, though--I have a few ends to tie up and a couple of final cute scenes to write. I think I'll stay under 50k (hopefully! I don't want to have to write another 10k ;;). I am tempted to ask for a beta, but I also kind of want to try and post this for Guardian Week, which would mean the latest I could post it is the 20th. I saw in your beta offer on sid_guardian that you can't do last-minute requests, and 40k in 5 days feels like a last-minute request. That said, if you're feeling like giving it a read and giving me very general feedback, I'd very much appreciate it (and you'd get a preview!).

Completely impossible to translate because of its immense context-sensitivity
I can imagine. I tried reading a couple translated-from-Mandarin fics in Nirvana in Fire and it just didn't work for me. The flow is so different, even in the translation. So far, I've done some Skritter decks and have started the Duolingo course, and I've got an app to practice writing. It's fun to do in long boring meetings. ;)

Thank you for all the links! Always useful to have. :D

[tinny]

First things first:

I am tempted to ask for a beta.

Beta reading should be totally fine!

So, yeah, you have my mail address, send it over, or send me a gdoc link. I don't have actual Word on my laptop, so gdoc is probably better? But I don't mind, either should be ok. Let me know what kind of feedback you want or don't want, if you have anything specific in mind.


In general, I am very happy that you are still in Guardian fandom! Neery went right on to the Untamed, which I am currently letting her drag me into kicking and screaming, because *I don't want to watch it*. Not sure she'll succeed, but she insists on trying some more.

I'm still happy with my Zhu Yilong obsession. *g*

[teyla]

you have my mail address, send it over
I just did! Please feel free to be as detailed or casual about this as you like--no pressure at all! And thank you so much for offering. I have put everything in the document (notes, what I'm looking for, warnings, etc.).

Hah hah, neery is going to make me watch the Untamed soon, as well. I'm not sure I'm going to get as obsessed with it as she did--but then, I said that about Guardian, so we'll see. I have at least one more fic I want to write in Guardian, though, so I'm hoping I won't get distracted too quickly.

I tried the Tomb show, but it didn't quite click for me. I have seen Detective L in the meantime, though, and enjoyed it a lot--not so much in a fannish way, though. I just really like the outfits, and I'm easy when it comes to Sherlock Holmes adaptations. :D

[tinny]

When do you want me to be done with the story? I am trying to figure out how much downtime I can afford. ;) I am about a third of the way through now, I think. So if I continue like this, I'll be done on Sunday.

Oh, I just saw your comment. I think I was pretty fast because there's barely anything to correct. (I tried reading carefully nonetheless. :))

Hah hah, neery is going to make me watch the Untamed soon, as well. I'm not sure I'm going to get as obsessed with it as she did

I know I'm not, because I don't have room in my heart for more than one obsession, and that's taken up by Zhu Yilong. And there are several reasons why I have not watched the Untamed yet, which are also factors for me not being objective about it or very open to it. So I might watch it, but I'm not sure I'll enjoy it, and I'm pretty much 100% sure I won't get fannish about it.

I tried the Tomb show, but it didn't quite click for me.

That's a pity. I love the sense of humor in it, which is really rare for a Chinese show to actually be funny. And I like the iron triangle true friendship, even though it's a very male adventure-y kind of setup which I didn't expect to like. That's already more than I expected. (I expected Zhu Yilong to suffer prettily, nothing more. He does that, too.) It has lots of stuff that sucks, too, but overall, I am positively surprised.

I have seen Detective L in the meantime, though, and enjoyed it a lot--not so much in a fannish way, though. I just really like the outfits, and I'm easy when it comes to Sherlock Holmes adaptations. :D

And it is such a weird Sherlock Homes adaptation, too! Totally blatant in some parts, but different enough to be interesting again, nonetheless. And the cinematography on it is amazing. Great lighting, great costumes, best use of that terrible film studio set I have ever seen. (What I have seen it used on is Guardian, Dreamlike Life, and Detective L. Only one of them makes it look good. :D ) Also, it's a great look for Bai Yu.

I am a little fannish about it, but I haven't watched it all yet. I think I'm about halfway through. I have no time. /o\ Also, Bai Yu's character is very popular as a crossover pairing with Zhu Yilong's character Luo Fusheng from Dreamlike Life, that helps with the fannishness.

[teyla]

When do you want me to be done with the story?
Honestly, don't rush. I am more and more thinking that I might not make it till the 20th, since I'm not even done with the first draft. I don't want to rush the ending, so take as much time as you need while I'm coming up with my last few thousand words. ;)

I'm curious about the Untamed just because everyone and their mom (in some case literally) is talking about it, but I also tend to not be very comfortable in huge fandoms. I don't know if Untamed is really as big as it feels right now, but it feels pretty big!

As for the Tomb show, I enjoyed the set-up well enough--I think I'm just missing a character to get obsessed about. To get into a fandom, I tend to need one of the characters to really interest me and give me feelings, which none of the characters in that show do. They're fun enough, but not feelings material (for me). I might watch some more of it at some point, though. It's not like I hated it ;).

And the cinematography on it is amazing.
Ahaha, the cinematography is A LOT. I actually tried watching this on my own, but had to stop about ten minutes into the first episode because the whole everything of that show was too much to process all by myself. I ended up convincing findmeinthealps to watch it with me on the big TV; that worked better.

It's really cute and really pretty, and I like it as a SH take. I adore Qin Xiao Man, she's great, and I like her dynamic with Luo Fei. I think I'm not fannish about it because the only place my fic brain wants to go with this canon is the Japanese occupation of Shanghai and World War Two, and that's just depressing and also way too much research to do anything with. xD I'll stick to consuming on that one.

I'll have to check out Dreamlike Life! I have so many shows to get through. D:

[tinny]

Honestly, don't rush. I am more and more thinking that I might not make it till the 20th, since I'm not even done with the first draft.

Okay. I will not force myself, then, just do it at a comfortable pace (which will nonetheless be pretty fast, I think, since I have time).

I'm curious about the Untamed just because everyone and their mom (in some case literally) is talking about it, but I also tend to not be very comfortable in huge fandoms. I don't know if Untamed is really as big as it feels right now, but it feels pretty big!

I already feel that Guardian is big (or bigger than it was when I started), and it's still active and shows no sign of stopping even two years after the canon. The Untamed is supposedly much more prolific, people in my Guardian circles keep complaining about the ao3 tag being like a firehose. So I guess it's big all right?

I adore Qin Xiao Man, she's great, and I like her dynamic with Luo Fei.

Me too!

I'll have to check out Dreamlike Life! I have so many shows to get through. D:

Dreamlike Life is ... bad. :) I love his character to bits, but the rest of it is terrible soapy drama with terrible acting and sets that look like theatre stages. I still love it to bits, because the female lead is allowed to be strong, and Luo Fusheng is allowed to be the softest and most caring boyfriend ever - despite being a mafia enforcer (which makes no sense, and Zhu Yilong is pretty bad at?). But the character development for the female lead was nice to watch. The production did a few things right when it came to character development in general. I definitely recommend it for completeness, not because it's any good. I have a Luo Fusheng cut of it (sadly unsubbed), if you want that at some point.

[teyla]

So I guess it's big all right?
Honestly, it's starting to feel omnipresent like Stucky was back in the day. I can imagine that the tag is a little overwhelming. But we'll see, maybe I'll enjoy the show.

being a mafia enforcer (which makes no sense, and Zhu Yilong is pretty bad at?)
Aw man, all my love to Zhu Yilong, but I can't quite take his menacing vibe seriously even as Hei Pao Shi. He always looks more sulky and annoyed than dangerous (which, he's very good at sulky and annoyed!). I love it for Guardian, because I adore the idea of the Black-Cloaked Envoy swooping around in his cloak rolling his eyes as he zaps criminals for annoying him, but mafia enforcer ... I dunno.

I may get back to you about the cut! Though I always get fomo with supercuts, so maybe I'll have to sit through the whole thing, after all.

[tinny]

Aw man, all my love to Zhu Yilong, but I can't quite take his menacing vibe seriously even as Hei Pao Shi. He always looks more sulky and annoyed than dangerous (which, he's very good at sulky and annoyed!).

Lololol thank you! I am never sure what I'm allowed to say, since there are some fans in the Guardian fandom who react allergic to critical comments. He is such a warm person, he just can't pull off the bad guys.

My very first reaction post to Guardian was about him fighting the monsters in the mountains and my comments "even fighting monsters, he looks like this" - and some people were convinced that he looks scary and aggressive, and I was like... no? He looks cute? He can swing a weapon all right, but that's the only scary thing about him. :)

But what he has in spades is vulnerability, and that's imho the most important skill for an actor to have, so I am not complaining.

For Dreamlike, some people say that Luo Fusheng is only "acting" like a badass and bully, but really isn't one, and that's why it looks fake - and I can almost believe that. I'd not put it past Zhu Yilong to layer some more acting into his acting.

(Have I sent you the Dreamlike BTS yet where he cries for a minute? In my "crying top ten" it's way up there with the DW BTS from David Tennant crying over the Master. (Except for the stupid soundtrack they put over it, meh. But Z1L's acting is A++.))

Though I always get fomo with supercuts, so maybe I'll have to sit through the whole thing, after all.

I'm a completist, too. I either watch the whole thing or nothing at all. I fast-forward through the other actors' scenes like nobody's business, though. ;DD (In fact, I did that with the first ten Guardian eps, as well. Saw some of those for the first time on the group rewatch. :D)

[teyla]

some people were convinced that he looks scary and aggressive
Hee, I don't really see that, either. I do think you can draw something scary and discomfiting out of Shen Wei's character, but it's less about the way he looks and more about how he can be pretty, well, alien? To humans, because he's Dixingren and also grew up 10k years ago and has a pretty unyielding moral code, but also to his own people, just because he's so insanely powerful. And I guess if you combine that vibe with the black robes and mask, you can get kind of a scary vibe ... but only if you can't see his face. ;)

I have not seen this BTS, no. I am curious; I don't think I've seen him cry yet? Bai Yu, neither, not beyond what he does as Zhao Yunlan on the show.

Hee, I tend to sit through the whole thing at least once, and then dip back in for favorite scenes. It does mean, though, that if sitting through the whole thing gets too boring, I tend to stop watching.