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Victory of the Daleks
Gaaaaaaahhhh why so slow. Seriously. Speed up those episodes. All everyone did all episode was stand around and talk. And then show people push little figures around a battlefield table. And talk some more. And introduce the new iDaleks (sponsored by AppleTM). And talk some more. And, yeah, maybe talk some more then.
No surprises, no tension, no interesting scenes. Good God, the lights went out! Show me some people being actually affected by that. Make British intelligence pick up a German air squad on their way to London while the lights were blazing. Make people panic, show me some emotion. An old dude in front of what was clearly a green screen isn't going to do. Get some movement in your scenes.
Speaking of movement--in the first four seasons, wasn't the Doctor all about the running? Donna said it; there's an awful lot of running involved. The first thing Nine said to Rose was "run". Both Nine and Ten had a bajillion scenes where they were just running like maniacs, towards danger, away from danger, whatever. They were moving.
Eleven doesn't run. He stands around and talks. He's awfully static. I saw him stumbling/running away from the Dalek firing at him and went, oh look! The Doctor's running again. It lasted only about a second, but I think it was more running than he did in the first two episodes. Which is just kind of--un-Doctor. It's what the Doctor does, he runs. Or at least it's what he's been doing in New Who in both previous regenerations. You're never going to get the same dynamic in the new season if you let your Doctor just stand there all the time.
I have to say, I do like the idea that Eleven's sort of going, phew. My tenth regeneration was just me getting hurt, all the time--I think I'm going to hang back a little for a while, try to get myself sorted out a little. But he needs to get over that eventually, because nobody likes a static, inactive main character. He needs to get his act together and start taking action again. And stop talking. Seriously, the next episode that consists to 85% of exposition talk I'm going to stab with an ice pick.
As for the actual plot of the episode; I don't quite understand why this had to be Winston Churchill and WWII. If you're going to do WWII, do it the way Human Nature did WWI--address the human tragedy that any war represents, and don't try to glorify it and make it into some noble sort of adventure that had to be overcome to save the Empire. I see this tendency in Moffat; having recently rewatched Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, I remember that in that episode, Nine had this stupid speech he gives to the kid about how Britain wins the war and defeats the Nazis--as if there were something noble or patriotic or honorable in getting your country bombed to pieces because you didn't agree to contribute to global war and genocide. I'm not saying that the victims of the Blitz shouldn't be honored, I'm saying that writing nostalgic and sentimental television episodes about it isn't honoring the dead, it's trivializing their deaths. And yes, I know that Moffat didn't write this episode, but he's still setting the tone of the show. And I didn't like the tone of this episode.
In conclusion, I am getting really impatient with this season. Get some action in there, will you? Right now, I'm feeling like I'm watching a string of filler episodes like Fear Her and The Idiot's Lantern--just another Who, not completely unpleasant, but nothing to write home about. Sigh.
comment on LJ
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I guess I miss the running. I know Who didn't always have it, but New Who did, and it's one of the big things I liked about it. I wish I could see it in the new season, but so far, I can't, not really.
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They did actually have this, it was just really easy to miss because it was one line ("something-or-other spotted over the channel") crammed in amongst a bunch of other technobabble.
I didn't midn much about the level of action, but the episode as a whole seemed fairly shoddy--it's like they said, "OK, this is the one with Winston Churchill and the multi-colored Daleks--just make up some stuff to go in around that!" Just about every element of the plot falls apart when you take more than a cursory glance at it.
I did rather like the space whale one.
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Pfft, see, that's what I mean--it's all telling, and no showing. Nobody really seemed too bothered when the lights were on. And the German planes didn't actually arrive after they'd turned off the lights. Apparently, they had all the time in the world to solve their lighting problem, which just doesn't make for a lot of tension.
but the episode as a whole seemed fairly shoddy
Yeeah. I just kept going, can something happen now, please? And Churchill didn't do anything at all. I mean, I think that's probably good, because the way they glorified him as a British hero already bugged me a little. But if all he does is stand around and chew on cigars, why have an important historical figure in the episode at all? I guess I didn't quite understand why they chose the setting they chose. They could have told this story anywhere.
ETA: And oh, yeah, the space whale one was the best so far. The thing that bothered me in that one was the weird character development leap Amy did halfway through. I think if they'd brought it later in the season, it probably would have worked better.
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The more I look back on RTD's Who the more I think it's...not really Doctor Who. I mean, it IS obviously, but it changed so damn much. I feel far more comfortable with Moffat's who. Less way-to-over he top and grand emotions. Way less drama. More like classic who. More like a fairy tale.
I like that the plots are 'slow'. I LIKE that Moffat is taking the time to see the Doctor recover from his insecurity (and he IS Which is why Amy is mainly the one calling the shots ATM which I love.)
I also think it has alot to do with Moffat's love of the fifth Doctor. In way's five was a rather static character. In particular the 'really bad day' line from TBB made me think of five.
It's actually a pretty smart way of dealing with Tennant leaving though. Ten was always a very active character (much like the fourth Doctor) it's a good idea to throw something different at us. Create a contrast.
RTD and Moffat approach the characters differently because of the Doctor's they grew up with.
And? God hate me but I love the talking to XD Because it's so very very British. You can't actually do anything you just need to talk about it. And, oh, there should be tea of course. Something wrong? tea. Just failed an exam? Tea. War's just broken out? TEA DAMN IT.
...I always forget we totally don't watch the same show do we? XD
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Well, it's not like Classic, no. If you ask me, I'd follow that statement with a "thank God". Old television is slow, it is a lot about showing, not telling, because people hadn't figured out yet how to write in this new medium, and they didn't have the money or the means or the experience to show. But you know, we're in the 2010s now, not the 80s or 90s. Society has changed, television has changed. RTD brought the show back, and he got to decide what it would be--and he decided it would be something that appealed to today's society, not the society of several decades ago. There's a reason Who was never really successful anywhere outside the UK--maybe the States, a little--before RTD changed it and brought it back. I prefer Who not being a self-indulgent nerd show. It makes it more fun to watch.
And Moffat knows this, too. He's not writing Classic Who. What he's doing is trying to write RTD's Who with Classic tools, and it's not working. You need to do either-or--and you can't just snap your fingers and change the format from one season to the next. Or, you can, but you're going to lose quite a bit of your audience's interest that way.
I don't actually mind the fact that Eleven is not being very active at the moment. As you said, it works as a character development from Ten. But I would like to see that given as a reason. Show me why Eleven isn't taking action. I want to see him considering the fact that if he gets involved, he'll just get hurt again. Whenever Matt Smith actually gets to act, he does it very well--but it's like once per episode. He's getting screwed over by the scripts--they park him somewhere, make him eat weird things, and don't let him do anything. How the hell are they going to develop his character if he gets a two-minute-span per episode to actually do any acting?
Talking is all nice and well, but there's a very basic writing rule, which is "show, don't tell". And the new season isn't following it. They might as well just give Matt Smith a set and a microphone, point a camera at him and have him tell the story. It would definitely be a lot cheaper. They are trying to have stuff happening, but they're like, "and stuff happens! No really! Take my word for it, even if I'm not planning on showing you." If there's action in your script, show it happening. If they're isn't, well, then you need some damn good dialog to keep people interested. Take Midnight. That's a whole lot of talking for 45 minutes, not much movement, not much action--but it manages to create a fuckload of tension.
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I like the Doctor being a little safer too.
(I also really like comeing to it every week without worrying about what was going to be thrown at me).
I can see why people wouldn't like that because it's very much a personal thing, but you know, I don't think I'm *wrong* to feel that way. It's all just how you look at it :D
"What he's doing is trying to write RTD's Who with Classic tools, and it's not working. " - it is for me.
I will agree with you however that I think that could be spelt out a little better - the whole not taking action thing - because it took me a while to get and I know some people just aren't seeing it.
"I prefer Who not being a self-indulgent nerd show." - this made me laugh though XD Because it's pretty much DW by definition. Doctor Who has always been self indulgent and always will be. It's part of the charm.
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Oh, no, definitely you're not. I think a lot of people feel that way--a lot of people like their television to be safe, and predictable, and hold few surprises. Which is why a lot of television shows go for a medium-status-quo-thing in their writing--don't do anything that might surprise the audience, keep a low profile, only put predictable surprises in there. Don't push people out of their comfort zone; it might piss them off.
You can write a show like that, and it might even be successful. Supernatural is like that. Entirely predictable, catering to every single one of the audience's expectations, and never doing anything new or different. I think, however, that you can't write anything groundbreaking that way. Now, I know that a lot of people don't want their television to be groundbreaking, and as you said, there's nothing at all wrong with that. However, I do like television--or stories in general--that make me think in new ways, that push me out of my comfort zone and make me look at things in a different way. And RTD's Who did that, which is why I love it so much.
- it is for me.
And for a lot of other people, for the reasons I mentioned in the first part of this comment. What I meant was that with the kind of writing Moffat is doing now, the show would never have gotten as big as it did when RTD was writing it. Because there are a bajillion shows out there that give you weekly entertainment without actually doing anything new. People tune in, they watch it, they're amused, but it's nothing to write home about. If you want to attract the attention of a large audience, and of a new audience, you need the groundbreaking bit. Which RTD's Who had, but which I can't see yet in the new season--I can see Moffat attempting to do it, but he's not managing. That's what I meant when I said that he's trying, but it's not working.
Doctor Who has always been self indulgent and always will be. It's part of the charm.
All fiction is. Fiction is self-indulgence by definition. What I was saying was--you know those fans at cons who sit around griping about the good old days, when nobody knew Who except a few select people, and you had to walk 10 miles uphill both ways to get your new episodes? That's what I meant. Catering to that kind of audience will make that audience very happy, but it will lose you the attention of everybody else--and everybody else is in the majority. So if you're a television show, one that already suffered budget cuts, you'd do well to make sure you don't get too elitist about choosing your audience. RTD's writing struck a cord with people who aren't specifically into science fiction, who don't usually watch that kind of show, which is why Doctor Who got so much attention all of a sudden. As a television show, you want to reach as many people as possible. And I think that going back to Classic Who style won't exactly gain the show a new audience. There's a reason Classic Who was canceled.
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I made the mistake of watching it with my family so had to listen to my dad and brother wet themselves laughing talking about all the various military mistakes :P The flying space-planes proved too much for them both really (suspension of disbelief bypassed them completely :P)
The only bit I wasn't as keen on was the way random lance corporal ("Ahh, a Lance-Corporal...so many of them in the RAF" ~ Dad) woman's boyfriend kept getting mentioned and then died, so whoever he was he was clearly someone that will become important later on (probably in relation to the whole Amy not remembering the Daleks thing) or perhaps not...but the continuous mentionings were annoying :S
Oh, and the Doctor was a bit of a bugger too.
Plus the little progenitor device... I thought it was a baby dalek and then it would be all babyfied and scooting around trying to exterminate things in a haze of "Oh its so cute, but it'll grow up and kill us all!" In my defense, I had spent all day on a steam train in the North York moors getting blinded by the sun.
So yeah, I enjoyed the episode actually! Not in a "this is the best thing ever!" kind of way, but still enjoyed it :D
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I don't really mind talking so much, as the fact that they keep telling and not showing. Like the German air squad over the Channel thing. Apparently there actually was one coming in, but they only mentioned it once, very briefly, and there were no reactions or consequences. Blink-and-you-miss-it tension. They can talk all they want, but if there's actually something happening, I want to see it happen.
The only bit I wasn't as keen on was the way random lance corporal woman's boyfriend kept getting mentioned and then died
Yeah, that was odd. I have no idea why that was important. Another instance of telling-not-showing, though. "Hi, by the way, folks, this lance corporal dude died! Please remember that, it'll become important later.". If they want it to be a surprise that it'll get mentioned again, they need to make it matter when it happens, so people won't go, bzuh? What was that about? Guess it'll be important later on.
I don't know, I actually didn't mind the Doctor in this episode too much. I did mind that he was randomly on first-names term with Churchill and apparently supported him unquestioningly, which I can't see the Doctor being and doing. But other than that, I like the idea of Eleven trying to stay out of things, because not staying out of things was what got his tenth regeneration fucked over again and again. Of course, this would actually have to end up being a full-season character arc, and idk if Moffat will do that. It'd be nice if he did, though. Maybe he will.
Lol @ your brother and your dad. That must have been so annoying, lol. And probably quite funny, too. ;)
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Yeah, I picked up on the mention of it and there was sort of "Oh my golly gosh, London's going to be bombed!" kind of reactions going on but nothing much - no civvies were shown or harmed in the making of this episode :P
Lol @ your brother and your dad. That must have been so annoying, lol. And probably quite funny, too. ;)
Lol yup! Its hard to concentrate and keep a straight face when there's two of them going "oh hard cheeeese old boy!" everytime there was a character with a remotely posh accent on!
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But of all your issues, I can't believe you didn't mention the sheer WTFery of the fact that they apparently got WWII planes into SPACE in the span of 10 minutes or so.
LOLWUT.
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I'm more bothered by the structure- and characterization-issues than by the plot issues. Which there were a lot, in this episode, and they did bother me, more than they would in an RTD ep, because the rest wasn't good enough to distract from them.
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Felt the need to comment >_> And this brings home to me how much DW should stay out of really big history points.
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Or at least use them so obscurely that it's okay again. Like Pompey?
Felt the need to comment too. ;)
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I am actually slightly disappointed atm. Mostly because of the overarching plot thing he has going than anything else... but anyways.
I have to say this season feels a lot like ST TNG to me atm. Lots of standing around statically, looking at stuff and commenting on what's going on. It's like the show has gone from 2010 style back to 1986 style. Or maybe RTD is really that much ahead of time. LOL
But yeah, lots of loose ends here too. Like you said last episode already, same here. The dead boyfriend. The random old dude. What was the point of them? And why not have Danny Boy introduced a bit earlier, make me feel for him as a person and then have him kamikaze into the ship, trying to save the world. He could even have been said boyfriend. But I guess that would have been too RTD. ;)
We are spoiled by His greatness.
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I have to say this season feels a lot like ST TNG to me atm.
I've been thinking this. Omg, the Doctor turned into Captain Picard. Does that mean that if the Master shows up, he'll be Q? That would be weird.
Was Danny Boy not the boyfriend? I thought he was. But yeah, I remember thinking, what? Who are you? when the fighter pilot contacted the Doctor and was like HI I AM DANNY BOY :D. I was like, should I know who you are?
Generally, I'm really hoping they'll get their act together, because I would like to continue liking the show. :/
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Yeah, same here.