teyla | Comment Whoring

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Comment Whoring

Everybody hates comment whoring, y/y? I've often tried to figure out why this particular kind of trollish behavior is so despised in fandom, and I think I might have just found another aspect.

You only comment whore if you are in the habit of comparing comment counts and using comments to judge the quality of someone's writing. In short, comment whores make fanfiction into a competition.

Thing is, anything gets comments. People might give something a lot of comments because it's really that good, or they might give it a lot of comments because it provides mindless distraction on the quality level of daily talk shows. Comment counts are one of the most unreliable factoids to consult when it comes to judging the quality of someone's writing.

By making it about comment counts, though, comment whores enable the mindset of 'It doesn't matter how good my fic is, as long as I get comments!'. Writing stuff that provides mindless distraction is easier than actually producing something well-written, so due to this mindset, the badfic count increases. So does the number of unfinished, never-ending WIPs - because what better way to get comments than to post each chapter separately and make people beg for the next part? - and so does the number of thoughtless and pointless less-than-500-words fic^(*). In short, if getting comments is more important than minding and increasing the quality of the writing, fandom gets spammed with badfic. Therefore, people who make it about comment counts are met with a lot of hostility in fandom.

Do you agree? Disagree? Were you going 'well, duh!' reading this? Let me hear your thoughts ~~on yaoi~~! :)

^(*)Please don't interpret this as me saying that anything under 500 words is badly written, or that people who post their fic in several installments are always out to get more comments. That would simply not be true. There are people who do it to get more comments, though, and in my experience, good drabbles and vignettes are a rarity.

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I think it is hard not to pay attention to comments when you post stories, especially in the beginining. Let's face it, when you spend time writing something, it's nice to know that someone else read it and enjoyed it. When I don't get very many comments, it does make me wonder if the story sucks. Generally, I tend to pay more attention to the type of comments rather than number. The story I am most proud of (one I struggled with big time) got far less comments than some of my quick dialogue only fics and my smut. That being said, I got less comments, but there were several really thoughtful comments that I loved hearing. I am happy getting any comments, but I treasure the ones where I know the person reading got what I was trying to say.

My thoughts on yaoi: *Points to icon*

The story I am most proud of (one I struggled with big time) got far less comments than some of my quick dialogue only fics and my smut. That being said, I got less comments, but there were several really thoughtful comments that I loved hearing. I am happy getting any comments, but I treasure the ones where I know the person reading got what I was trying to say.
yes yes yes yes. THIS.

Yeah, I think anybody loves to get comments. I know I do, and I know I'm proud of that one short ficlet that unexpectedly got me two pages of comments, lol. Liking to get comments, or general feedback on one's work, though, is different from using comment counts to judge the quality of a fic. As you said, it's mostly about the content of the comments, not so much about the number. Or at least it should be, lol. ;)

Yes, I'd say that's true. I'd also say that lots of comments aren't necessarily any indication of quality or time spent on crafting quality.

Conversely, sometimes people don't comment on things that they think are 'too good' --- where they can't think of anything to say other than, "that was good" and feel that comment would be banal.

Comment whoring is also just so rude.

Comment whoring is also just so rude.
Trufax. I think, however, that it might be considered this rude because of the effects it has on fandom - making it into a competition in which the most important thing is getting comments. If it didn't have that effect, it might just go ignored. Like this, it's met with a lot of hostility, which might actually seem uncalled for to the person who comment-whored in the first place - probably without knowing what reaction they might provoke.

Yeah, I get the 'not commenting because one doesn't know what to say', actually. I know it's shitty, but I do it, too, from time to time. Sometimes a fic moves me without me being able to tell what was so good about it, and simply writing 'yay, cool fic!' or somesuch thing would feel, as you said, banal. So I bookmark with the intention of leaving a comment some other time, which I of course never do. /o\

Heh, if I find a fic really hot and all I would be able to say is "Wow, that was hot", I usually leave a more humorous comment describing how it's shut my brain down. I've done muzak, random gibberish, whirring noises, a customer sales rep, etc.

You know, I never thought about it, but I never read comment whore fics. I think it stems from my early days of trawling through ff.net where I quickly learned NEVER to click the fics with the words "plz r/r" in the summary, because those fics were inevitably terrible.

Also, yaoi? I recently convinced a MALE friend to read it, so we know how much I like it. :D

Yeah, it's one of the effects of comment whoring. Either you get negative reactions in the comments, or people simply avoid your fic. Lol, it's just not very efficient.

Hah! I did that too, once - convinced a male (straight!) friend to read slash. He even enjoyed it. :D

Esp if it's spelled plz r/r. Any fic where the summary is horrifically misspelled (I don't mean a word off, I mean EVERYTHING off), I don't read. And plz r/r counts.

I'm male and I read yaoi.... But I'm not straight. I don't think it counts @_@

On yaoi? Heh, anywhere, anyhow, anyway at all :D

First, my own experiences with above topic:
I do like getting comments -- who doesn't? But comments like 'great story', while gratifying, are sorta like... k thanks, Nems, moving on now. I like it when I get thoughtful comments. I do a bit of comment whoring, but with everything in life, I tried to inject some of my dry humor into it. I may've fallen short of the mark entirely, but I'll let you guys be the judge.

Dr. House ~~is being forced~~ would like to take this time and space to remind you that "puppies shouldn't be kicked, Chase is a whore, and reviews are love. Can I have a week off Clinic duty now?" Dr. Wilson would like to add, "Favorite lines are much appreciated, I'm told. Ditto for concrit."

Other people's comment whoring:
If it's said in a funny/amusing way, it makes me smile. If it's clever, I'll probably say so. So if someone posted a cute little poem about comments, heh, I'll probably like it. I'm a simple guy like that.

What I notice about chaptered fics is that they have ridiculously short chapters. I mean, sometimes, there's a definite point to having a short chapter, and I respect that. But usually it's just like, heh, TEASER! Or, COMMENTS AND I'LL UPDATE!!! A lot of the ones I've seen could be one post without hurting the story -- would probably help.

And a lot of people post the second they've completed a part without bothering to read it or see if they wanna add to it. And that usually just sucks.

Pointless less-than-500 word fics: JESUS, I've seen SO MANY. Most of them are totally implausible and pointless. Their only saving grace is that they're short, so the misery isn't prolonged.

I think a better test of how good your fic is if people remember it and search for it. You know, if two years later, people are still going, "OMG, that was a GOOD fic."

Lol, I know your line about comments, and I think it's sweet. I actually identify comment whoring either as rude statements demanding comments, or obvious comment-whoring behavior, like posting fic in really short parts or producing one pointless non-drabble after the other.

Asking for feedback on one's work is not the same thing. It's all about the motive behind the request - you either want feedback, which is reasonable and understandable, or you just want COMMENTS, so your comment count will go higher up than other people's. Which is just stupid.

Yeah, getting feedback on fic you've posted years ago is always nice, if slightly creepy. Lol.

Ah, I see. I like including my line because it usually sets the tone of my writing. I'm usually writing something humorous anyway.

I like your def. of comment whoring. Eesh. I hate it so much. The worst is when they say "If you want more, comment." /shudder. And those are fics you DON"T want more of, and they post new bits anyway.

I knew you would post about this after our chat. ;)

My feelings on comment counts are mixed. I love when people get comments, but I hate getting them myself, and sometimes it's REALLY hard for me to accept comments as praise because I know they're so unreliable. I therefore have trouble reconciling why people think comments are so important--I *know* why people want them (approval, acceptance, all that stuff we talked about), but it still drives me crazy, because it doesn't prove anything, as you say. I personally would rather people just went on their way and didn't comment on anything I had to say at times (I AM SO AWFUL FOR SAYING THAT *facepalm*), and I've had to work really hard to accept that they will, so comment whoring seems sort of sad. I wish we all had more self confidence, but the internet isn't built for that.

I guess... it's hard for people to detach from that? To NOT cater to an audience? And people take it too far and think it's a sign of value to get comments, so they do anything they can to get them?

Hee, predictable T'eyla is predictable. xD

Lol, well, I do like getting comments. Most people do, I guess, and while I can understand your discomfort at getting them, I don't think it's something that's very common in fandom.

I think there are several types of comments - there's genuine feedback, there's commenting on friends' entries, and there's catering to people's need for attention. The third kind is the kind I agree there should be less of, although I do admit that I still like getting them, lol.

And people take it too far and think it's a sign of value to get comments
I think that's the main problem, yes. Any comment that increases my comment count is good. *facepalm*

I think most people do want comments. It's nice to be popular, right? And you post fics for people to read, so it's a bit disheartening to get no feedback at all because it seems like no-one's reading. So I don't mind writers saying something like 'Feedback is appreciated!' and I do that myself sometimes.

I don't think comment whores are hated just because their attitude increases the amount of badfic, though that may be part of it. I think it's mostly because it's seen as rude to be so demanding. Tactics like demanding x number of reviews before updating just smack of entitlement and most people don't like authors who think they are owed reviews by their readers. The more of a comment whore you are, the more it seems like you're not bothered about writing a good fic and all you care about is popularity. That puts me off as well.

So I don't mind writers saying something like 'Feedback is appreciated!' and I do that myself sometimes.
Yeah, as I told Nems - I think there's the people asking for feedback because they are actually interested in getting feedback for their work, and then there are the people who just want MOAR COMMENTS. The first kind are not comment whores, in my book.

The more of a comment whore you are, the more it seems like you're not bothered about writing a good fic and all you care about is popularity.
Yeah, that's actually what I was talking about. As soon as your fic writing starts to become about getting more comments, you're not a productive member of fandom anymore. Which I could imagine might get people to act hostile towards you, because you're spamming fandom only to cater to your own need for attention.

Okay... I would lie if I said I don't like to receive comments when I post stuff (I'm strictly speaking of stories now - although of course I like comments on personal stuff, too, but that's a different thing altogether). But I'm not gonna ask for them. If people like my stories, it's nice of them to let me know. If I don't get any comments at all, I wonder if it was really that bad (mostly because I never, ever comment on stories I don't like or even hate, I mean, who am I to discourage anyone, so I happily assume other people follow that policy as well which is silly because maybe that's not the case at all). When people get in my face too much with their asking for comments (and this seems to be happening more & more), I don't even read their stories, because I don't want to comment because someone asks for it, just when I feel moved to do so. Fandom should be fun (yeah!) and I don't want to feel forced or obliged or anything to leave comments. As for WIP's, some of my very favourite stories are or were WIP's, but usually have or had fairly longish chapters, and I did/do comment on them because I love them, they make me smile, so why not let the author know so? I'm not sure that the comment whores increase the amount of bad fic - is there more bad fic now then before, I'm not really sure. You could have a point there, though. And also, it's not the quantity of comments that count, but what they say. "Good story" is a bit... it's not saying much. Why is it a good story? Is it happy, sad, in character, funny, uplifting, hot?

I was going to make a point, but I'm not really doing it, am I? This is just a bunch of random thoughts. Sorry... And yaoi = love!

Heh, you have a very sensible comment/feedback policy. If more people had it I think that, yes, there would be less badfic. Or at least less fic that was posted merely to get attention.

Of course there are people posting WIPs and short fic that are not a mere ploy to get people to acknowledge them. But I think one can usually tell which is which by reading the fic. If someone has put no thought at all into their writing, it usually shows. I don't comment on fic like that, and if the fic is preceded by a line about how the author wants some goddamn comments, I probably won't even read it.

Yeah... I'm not really making a point here either, lol. But I agree, yaoi makes the world a better place! :D

If someone has put no thought at all into their writing, it usually shows. Yeah, I agree, but it never ceases to amaze me WHY people want to post stuff like that. I mean, yeah, fandom should be fun and everyone should do what they want, but why would you want to post a fic riddled with typo's and glaringly OOC Houses or Wilsons or stuff? To get comments? I'd rather have no comments than post a fic I didn't put any thought in. This is not saying my fic's are necessarily good, but it is saying I put in an awful lot of time and effort for them to be as good as I can make them, without typo's or grammar-errors and without OOC-ness and things. I can fret over one line forever.

Yeah, sorry, that was me above...

but why would you want to post a fic riddled with typo's and glaringly OOC Houses or Wilsons or stuff? To get comments? I'd rather have no comments than post a fic I didn't put any thought in.
Well, but that's because you're a sensible person who has understood what fanfic should be about ;). I have to say, though, I'd rather they produce horrible badfic and post that than go and plagiarize other people's fic. Which is the next step, if you want to look at it with a cynical eye.

I'm in the habit of writing shorter stuff myself. I seem to work in little scenes, so i find short fic works better.

I try not to pay attention to the amount of comments I do or don't get. I won't post anything I don't think I've done my best on so I try not to let stuff shake my confidence - sometimes easyer said than done i'll admit.

I can't abide 'Comment whoreing' though. If I like something I will say so, If not I won't. No 'please comment!' is going to make me change my made, and would put me off reading fic.

Well, I write a lot of short stuff, too. That's not it. The point is that if someone only writes to get comments, it's easier to produce something pointless and short without putting any thought into it.

I won't post anything I don't think I've done my best on
Very good policy, lol. I don't, either - except when I experimented with something and post it on my journal to get some input as to whether I'm going in the right direction or not.

Comment whoring is very off-putting. Curiously, this is not so in the graphics department of fandom. 'Commenting necessary!' seems to be a perfectly reasonable way to conclude your icon post.

'Commenting necessary!' seems to be a perfectly reasonable way to conclude your icon post.

But in that case, I'd assume the poster is using comments partially to track who is using their icons and which ones, so they know what style doesn't appeal (and what they shouldn't bother to make again). In the case of icons, that's a bit more understandable than fic, since icons exist for only one purpose.

Hm, well. As an author, I'd love to be able to use comments as a way to tell whether or not this plot/narrative style/idea worked on people. I'd say feedback and concrit are just as useful for writers as they are for graphic artists, but as a graphic artist in fandom, you're entitled to ask for it, while as a writer, you'll probably put people off by doing so.

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Comment Whoring

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