teyla | Doctor/Master Poll!

You forgot Different Age/Different Year in the academy question. Which would be my choice.

Oh, huh. Didn't think about that. Can't edit a poll; I hope that people will have the initiative to comment and tell me. ;)

. . . My answers differ by 'verse! I still like the idea of Looms, because the mental images involved are cracky as all hell.

Also, you didn't give the option that they might *both* have married. I think the Master would have married if he had to, for political reasons. Not like he does in canon, or any such thing . . .

I know, I realized that once I'd posted the poll. Bad me. Usually I'm better at this. But people can always tell me in the comments who they think the Master ended up marrying.

Although I always thought that your Master made the impression that Lucy was his first wife, political marriage or not.

Oh, yes, my Master was never married before. He thought it was silly that the Doctor got married. But I was thinking other people's Masters might have gotten married.

This is my favorite sentence today.

. . . It does look a *little* odd when I read it out of context >_>

*is really, really used to talking in Who-language*

Heh, I was gone from fandom for a while, and I'm just getting back. It's things like this that remind me why I love it so. ^__^

I agree, simply from Ten's incredulity at the fact the Master had a wife!? (And no rubbish beard!)

Hee, yeah. I think the Doctor was the one who entered a political marriage back on Gallifrey, in fact. Because in my head, when they were doing their politics thing on Gallifrey, the Master wasn't so much the one the public paid attention to. The Doctor was the sympathy figure, and as such, he was the one the emotional opinion of their followers hinged on. He got married to a close friend, so it wasn't completely random, but he made it official only because of political reasons.

Yay! I just entered what I thought would fit!

Yay Master.

Lol, I am amused at your obsession with him. But you're certainly not the only one, so don't worry. ;)

The scary thing is, I've yet to see him on screen... I only saw the pictures and read the Long Story you started to write about them some time ago (for NaNoWriMo I think?).

I'm so strange. And I tend to get so obsessed.

LLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMSSS!!!

(Which I see as an option, like test tube babies.)

It disappoints me so much that all my friends not in Who fandom don't know why LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMS is funny.

OMIGOD your icon :D

I love that icon.

And LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMS is always appropriate.

I usually don't like overtly sexual Doctor/Master icons ~~(just fic)~~ but this one was so almost nearly canon. The Doctor saying sweet nothings to the Master :)

I am of the personal canon opinion that Koschei was loomed, but Theta was born. But they were both the same age and raised the same ways.

This is my fanon as well, although I think they probably came from pretty different family backgrounds.

Well, Obviously! Koschei is from the old money, traditional and high class Time Lord Family, probably not a one not linked to the Prydonians, and Theta's from the Half-blood, crazy, hippie family.

...Or is that just the Harry Potter AU I'm writing?

I like that theory quite a bit, as well.

That's an interesting idea. It would explain quite a few things.

I like that a majority of people so far agree that Kosch had better grades, hahah

Well of course. Theta isn't one to show the work. ^__^

Lol, well. He's much more intent and eager to please in order to get approval. He would be more of a swot and therefore get better grades.

. . . or maybe that's just my fanon. >_>

The Time Lord in Terror of the Autons tells us that the Master did better in school.

My answers differ by 'verse, but I'd like to vote for they were both married, because the Master (obviously) is able to do it for political reasons.

I'm of the opinion that their relationship was very nearly sexual, but they were both far too stubborn to make the first physical move or even talk about it, with an oh so healthy side helping of Theta (if not both of them) going after anyone else who offered in order to drown it out. So, I'm not really sure how to answer that one as sex is involved and they certainly want it to be with each other, but it isn't. Almost-sexual? Substitute-sexual?

As I said in a comment above, I actually think that back then, the Doctor got married for political reasons. But then, that's personal fanon, so I don't have anything to back it up.

Heh, substitute-sexual works. And huh, I never thought about it that way--that they might have denied their feelings for one another. At least not during their Academy years. I always thought that came later, after their falling out, when they both got hurt badly by the other and just couldn't admit that they may have been wrong about stuff. That's me, though; I just don't think I've come across your version before.

I definitely think they were both married. Not necessarily to each other, even. I can definitely see the Master as having had kids on Gallifrey before leaving, and I think for him it would have been a choice, where with the Doctor it would have been an obligation.
And I definitely see the Gallifreyan society as placing too much importance on descent to allow for children without marriage.
Unless they were clones. But I think only the Rani would've been cloning herself.

Lol, the Rani would have had a small army of mini-Ranis. Kinda like Minime. . . . this is just not going anywhere I think I want to go. >_> But yeah, I agree, about the marriage-and-kids theory.

See, that's why I gave up at the Rani cloning tangent. All of my next thoughts were pretty much just disturbing.

Ssseeee this is super hard because my fanon is very flexible depending on my mood, and for most of these I wanted to say 'all of them?'

Mainly I know what I don't agree with, which would be things like 'neither of them married' or 'they were both shy' (I'm happy with either or neither being shy but not both at the same time) or 'they were loomed as adults'. Everything else is very interchangeable.

Ah, yeah, I've got a bunch of 'verses with different backgrounds, too. But I do have a "favorite" canon, so to speak--like a default, that I variate depending on what effect I want to go for in my current 'verse.

Oh, this has made me realize just how many verses I have bouncing around my brain. It's really, really good that 'all of the above' isn't an option.

I'm in the "Theta Married, Koschei didn't" camp, for one thing because I can imagine Theta realizing that it was expected, finding someone who's company he enjoyed and just signing the forms without coming to terms with some of the heavier emotional implications. For another, it makes the whole Lucy thing one more subtle screw you, which feeds my inner crackfiend. Yes, it was eight hundred some years ago. Yes, the Master is still bitter. XD

And hello! c: I'm glad to see the Academy verse getting some well deserved love.

Yes, it was eight hundred some years ago. Yes, the Master is still bitter.
Ahahaha, of course he is. He's the Master, after all. He sort of has a tendency to hold grudges for a while. xD

Hello! I love the Academy 'verse. I don't write about it often enough, but I like to play with the possibilities. It's not every canon that you get an inbuilt canonical high school AU, after all. ;)

Preeetty much agreeing with that view on the Doctor's marriage. Master: "SEE. I CAN GET MARRIED BECAUSE IT IS EXPECTED, TOO. Nah. Take that, Doctor. And I shall snog her in high-definition on national television."

I think they did call each other Theta and Koshcei if I have to write a story, but in fact, I think they really did use different names. It all depends on the author:).

Yeah, I usually go with Theta and Koschei only for lack of better nicknames, too. Well, I do like Koschei, actually--the meaning, "the deathless", makes sense to me, as does the fact that it's from Russian mythology. I can see them being supposed to pick their nicknames, and Koschei being at a bit of a loss, and Theta with his Earth obsession giving him a book on Earth mythology, and Koschei reading about the creature who can't die and who hides its soul outside of its body so nobody can ever touch it, and liking the idea enough to choose the name.

I'm not a fan of the name Theta Sigma. It doesn't seem to have a meaning, other than several far-fetched ideas about theta being a symbol related to life, and sigma being a symbol representing a sum--therefore you could go with a meaning of "all life" or "everything lives", which does sort of express the Doctor's idea of all life being equally meaningful. It's rather contrived, though. But then, I'm pretty clueless about classic and novel canon, so maybe there's a meaning to that name that I'm not aware of.

Ah. There's a book called The Making of Doctor Who (someone correct me if this is not the right title) that came out in the Seventies where the guys (who were scriptwriters and producers at the time) wrote in a bit where the Doctor's real name was written down as a mathematical formula. And theta and sigma have to be code for something, obviously. I love the good old mythological trope of things being created through speech, the way the Logopolitans keep the universe going by speaking complex mathematical formulae and stuff, so in my fanon (of which there are several;)), I kind of like the idea that Timey names are formulae and speaking them is an act of great power. The new series has emphasised that quite a bit, which I like--River whispering the Doctor's name, the Visionary scribbling the Doctor's and the Master's sigils into her Gallifreyan calligraphy predictions... that whole words of power thing. But I digress.

And yeah, you should definitely explore the classic canon more:). Some Doctors absolutely hate being called Theta Sigma, some quite like it. I think Four hated it and Seven loved it, but I might remember wrong.

Love your idea of Theta giving Koschei a book as a gift and him picking up the name from there. D'awwwwwwww!

Ah, yeah, I can see that, theta and sigma as mathematical symbols. In my fanon, Time Lords' names--as in, not their nicknames and not their titles, but their actual names--are telepathic, nothing a human could ever pick up or pronounce. Which is also why I sort of ignore the fact that River was supposed to "know" the Doctor's name. I wasn't really happy with it when it happened on the show, and I don't really stick to that bit of canon in my various 'verses. In my fanon, Time Lord names aren't something you can actually say out loud, and they can only be shared between telepaths. Theta/the Doctor and Koschei/the Master shared their names with each other when they were still very young--they'd probably just been taught how to establish a mental connection with another Gallifreyan when they decided that sharing their names with one another would be a good idea--and it gave them quite a bit of power over each other. And they both later on regretted sharing their names, which is why, in my fanon, they haven't done it again. But, yeah. That's all personal 'verse fanon. ;)

Oh, I've seen some classic. I've watched Five and Seven, and I've seen some Four--but I hated Four like burning, so I couldn't watch more than a few of his episodes. ;) I've seen a couple of episodes with One, Three and Six. I think the only Doctor I haven't actually seen any episodes with is Two. Although I've seen The Five Doctors. I just usually prefer making up my own fanon--especially when it comes to novel canon. I've read up about some of it on Wikipedia, but slogging through the actual novels always sounds like a lot less fun than just making up my own fanon. But that's me; I've got a tendency to go off and do my own thing in any fandom. ;)

Well, the great thing is that one can have multiple fanons. Maybe whatever River whispered into his ear was something a human would know, and the next best thing to his real name. And it can be ignored easily if you just focus on something else, obvy--this is why fanfiction is so liberating:). I don't have to give a shit about TPTB pushing unappealing ships at me when I'm writing my own story, thank goodness.

And huh, you hate Four? I heard of someone else the other week who hated Four and I can't get my head around it. Huh. I'm a big fan, sadly, and came into Who thanks to him, so... shame. I've always thought he's a popular Doctor because he had so many different styles and stories all throughout his era, but to each their own. And you seriously have to see Two, because he is absolutely brilliant:) Story-wise, intelligent scriptwriting-wise, acting-wise, just everything in that era is wonderful. If pressed, I'd call him my all-time favourite, but it's difficult to choose a favourite Doctor because there are so many to love for so many reasons. And because so much of Two was burninated. *sob*

And I'm glad you even care about the oldschool canon, anyway. A hell of a lot of n00bs don't, and that tends to put me off reading fics if they're clearly written by someone who doesn't know their stuff, even though the information they'd require would just be a few Wikipedia clicks away. At least watching the old series and reading about it is fun, but yeah... book canon is a different thing entirely. That's one of the few domains where I've just wanted to throw books across the room and demand my money back, that's how crap some of them are. It's definitely worth just picking and mixing when it comes to apocrypha!

Oh, yes, I'm sure she knew something she could only have known if the Doctor had told her personally, but I don't think it was his name. Only the Master gets to know that one. B| /tinhat OTP shipper opinion

I think the reason it didn't sit well with me at all was partly that I hate Moffat's tendency to pair the Doctor up with two-dimensional stereotypical female characters, tell a twu wuv story and then kill the female character off in good old Hollywood blockbuster tradition. I've always liked the mythology of the Time Lord names, and I wanted him to keep his hands off it. >_>

Yeah, I know, disliking Four isn't exactly a popular fannish opinion, but I can't help it. Of all the Doctors, he's the most self-righteous--he does things not because he thinks he's right, he does them because he knows he's right. That's a major turn-off for me--especially since I find that with most Doctors, the fact that they know that they're acting entirely based on their own choices is what makes the character so interesting. With Four, that gets sort of lost, since he actually does believe in inherent rights and wrongs, and usually considers himself to be right. Which I find very infuriating.

Heh, I've always been meaning to watch some Two, just for the sake of completion. He definitely was a whole lot of fun in The Five Doctors, with his constant bantering with the Brig. Of the Doctors I've seen, my favorites tend to be later Doctors, though--Ten (I've thought about this, whether this is just because he's "my" Doctor, but I do like him best for other reasons as well), and Seven. I adore Seven, especially with Ace.

I've never been very canon-obsessed, but especially with a canon like Who, it helps to see what's there before you go and make up your own stuff. You can still make up your own stuff, after all, if you don't agree with the existing canon, but at least then you'll know to label your fic AU. ;)

It makes me feel better to know that there is someone else out there that dislikes Four. They say you never forget your first Doctor, and he sure did make a big impression. After seeing some Four episodes at a young age, I didn't watch any DW for nearly the next thirty years! I will forever be grateful to the new series for smacking my now-adult self upside the head with the knowledge that the Doctor comes in nine (now ten) other flavors, and some of them are quite awesome.

I only ramble on because there is so much Four love in this fandom, I sometimes feel bad admitting my intense dislike. I also like your name theory quite a bit.

I went in expecting to like Four, since I love Ten, and people often compare the two, but I really ended up hating him. >_> He's my least favorite Doctor; he just really pisses me off when I watch his episodes. Six did, too, a bit, but I've only seen one episode with him, so I can't really make a judgment. But yeah, no. I am not a Four fan. There is quite a lot of love for him in the fandom, though, it's true--I think I've only once met someone else who disliked him as well.

some of these are personal choice questions, but if you take anything that was on tv as canon:

1. the doctor was called theta sigma by drax (a fellow year member) at least, and probably by others.
2. the sound of drums says they were taken from their parents aged 8, so i assume they weren't at school before this and were afterwards.
3. and romana says the doctor only passed on his third try and even then with only about 50%.
4. the master graduated with a significently higher degree in cosmic science than the doctor.

otherwise i just write whatever fits the story best :D and i usually go with theta and koschei because it's so much easier than referring to them as 'the fair haired boy' or whatever.

Oh, yeah, TV canon does have some things to say about their early lives. But then, Doctor Who canon isn't exactly what you'd call straightforward, especially if you include the extended canon--novels and audios etc. Personally, I have a tendency to just go with whatever I feel is most likely, and whatever fits my current 'verse, and I was interested in hearing about other people's personal take (read: fanon) on the Doctor's and the Master's backstory.

And I agree about the names. Their not having any names at all makes it very complicated to write fic, so going with the more-or-less established nicknames makes it a lot easier.

Even if I'm not a writer, I choose to call them Theta and Koschei for lack of alternatives and because I love the story behind the name "Koschei".

I also think that the Doctor was the confident one. I don't know why, but since the "drums" story-line came out, my personal fanon alternates between "Koschei and Theta, both smart and confident" and "Koschei, the introverted but brilliant kid". This goes to show how canon changes every time someone writes a new story.
I don't remember who (in OldSchool times) said that, for the authors, canon was what they could remember from their last time as writers, but if this is true, then we can have more personal fanon than one.

This goes to show how canon changes every time someone writes a new story.
It really does. Which is, I think, part of why Who canon is so multi-layered. There are so many stories. Over 45 years of TV show plus the novels plus the audios plus whatever else the BBC came up with over the years--it's impossible to know it all.

And oh, yeah, I have several personal fanons. But I do have sort of a default which I vary depending on which effect I want to achieve with my current 'verse. Part of that default is, in fact, that Theta was the more confident one. It just seems to fit, doesn't it?

Doctor/Master Poll!

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I mostly just wanted to use my new icon.

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