Of Ships and Doctors

[teyla]

I've just read a wonderful post s3 character study of Ten, and I think I'm realizing that my ship is actually Doctor/TARDIS.

WAAHH!!

Which makes The Parting Of The Ways an actual on-screen Nine/Rose/TARDIS threesome, right? *boggles*

But I am still of the conviction that Doctor Who doesn't really need ships. Actually, I think with some shows, I'd miss out if I picked an OTP and ran with it.


A while ago, I read an article about someone ranting that shippers are stupid, because they shrink their perspective to a very narrow range through which they view the show.

I think that opinion is bullshit. Shippers who do that are not stupid. The only people who are stupid are those who are not aware that they are doing it.

Let's take House as an example. A die-hard House/Wilson shipper will probably not be able to appreciate the House/Cuddy moments the way they could be appreciated if they didn't care who House gets shipped with. That's pretty obvious. If you're a shipper with an OTP, you pick two characters to concentrate on and stop paying much attention to the others. If one of your characters starts extending their range of action to interaction with others than the other half of your OTP, there'll be disapproving jealousy on part of the shipper. And if one of the characters disappears from the show, the shipper will have lost their reason of interest.

That's a narrow perspective. No argument there. However, I think everybody in fandom has the right to decide for themselves how much they want to narrow their perspective respectively widen it. I guess everybody who has been in fandom for a while has seen it happening to themselves - you start out as a hardcore OTP shipper, and after a while, you either lose interest in the fandom because there's only so much you can get out of your ship, or you start exploring other ships. That second part, I think, very much depends on the fandom. If it's a brilliant fandom that you simply don't want to leave, you'll try to find ways to keep yourself interested. And looking at a show from an unbiased/differently biased viewpoint is almost like watching it anew.

It also depends on the show. If the show is brilliant, I think at least I personally would consider it too much of a loss to concentrate on one pairing and block out everything else. In House, I'm perfectly fine with concentrating on House/Wilson and ignoring the rest, because, let's be honest, the rest isn't really all that interesting. It's a medical show with crappy medicine. There are some interesting story arcs with Cuddy, but the three ducklings are - at least imo - three very boring characters. The least boring is Chase, but he's not thrilling enough for me to watch the whole show just from a Chase-fangirl-perspective.

Doctor Who, on the other hand, for me is a show that I would want to watch from a perspective as wide as possible. They're putting so much effort in the details - just as an example, the prosthetic masks. They use CGI very seldomly, and their aliens - like for example the cat-nuns in 2x01 - look all the more amazing because they seem so real. And their main character, the Doctor, has so many layers and variations that it'd take one hell of a long time to get bored with him alone. As as soon as you do get bored with him, you can have him interacting with one of the many, many side characters and experience his personality from a whole new perspective. Or you can have him regenerating.

So, I for myself have decided to keep away from ships in Doctor Who. Or, rather, enjoy them all equally. I guess I made that decision when I read a reaction to the Time Crash line 'all my love to long ago' that Ten says to Five. Some person was all like, OMG HE MEANT THE COMPANION HE HAD BACK THEN! and all I could think was, no, no, don't do that! You're missing out on the MOST BRILLIANT META MOMENT EVER!

Of course, as I said, that's her choice and her business. It simply was my first reaction to reading it. And so I decided to a) not pick one OTP in Doctor Who, because no matter who's with the Doctor, it's all good, and b) not settle on one Doctor as the perfect Doctor. Which is gonna be hard, because OMG TEN SO MUCH LOVE! But I'd miss out on so much if I refused to watch and enjoy Doctors 1-9 and the Doctors to come after 10. It'll still break my heart to see DT go, though. I hope he'll stick around for at least two more seasons! Or more. As many as I can get ;).

Comments

[wihluta.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with you.
I actually started getting into the House fandom without any idea about OTPs (if anything I was pro House/Cuddy) but I found mine pretty quickly (h/w). And now, after about a year (OMG IT'S A YEAR!!!) I've kinda grown a little tired.

but that never happened to me with STARTREK. Because ST is my oldest biggest and neverending LOVE! I guess I was kinda born with it. It certainly seems to run in the family. And I'd never be able to start shipping just two characters. it would take too much away, like you said. :-)

I can't wait to get into DW! :-)

[teyla]

Hee, well, yeah. House was your first fandom wasn't it? Aww, nostalgia... ;D.

I've kinda grown a little tired
It's the show. At the moment, they're not only not giving us the HoYay, they're not giving us anything at all as far as Wilson is concerned. Wilson is comical relief at the moment, without a character, a history or a background. I was going to say he's the tin dog, but even K9 has more character than Wilson at the moment (and I guess you'll have to wait till DW s2 to understand that reference - lol, sorry ;P).

Anyway. At the moment, I'm waiting for House to get their characters sorted out, and maybe afterwards, we can have some actual character development again.

Star Trek was my first fandom. And I'm very nostalgic about it. I rarely read anything in Star Trek anymore, because the one show that I got into enough to read fanfiction about was Enterprise, and they broke my heart so badly with their season 4 finale that I'm still licking my wounds ;P. The 'verse is still marvelous, though. I used to be really, really good at Star Trek canon, and even though a lot of it has faded, I can still get excited about things like the Eugenian Wars and STVIII: First Contact.

It's just so brilliant when a fandom has a history. It's wonderful. I can't wait for you to get into Dr Who, because I know you'll love it ;D.

[onceforluck.livejournal.com]

It took me two and a half years of watching House every tuesday night to figure out that I was a H/W shipper. So I really doubt that I am one of those fans who only watch for the ship. Although House & Wilson scenes (whether the scene is particularly slashy or not) are BY FAR my favorite.

I don't really see Doctor Who as a particularly shippy fandom, only because I really find it hard to pair the Doctor with anyone. I just don't buy most ships for much more than "it would happen if he was totally horny and/or drunk". I think platonic love plays a big part in the Doctor's life, but beyond that I think he's pretty celibate, even on an emotional level. He just can't commit like someone (Rose, Martha) would want him to.

and that's why I have the totally demented ship of Doctor/Master, because it's more about the evil ex bf than anything really stable.

Also, to agree with another of your friend's comment, I never had a ship on Star Trek, but I completely love TNG. You don't have to be a total fangirl with every show.

:)

[teyla]

Hee, well, yeah, I was talking about shippers. I'm a H/W shipper, simply because I never really watched the show for anything else. I decided that the rest didn't interest me enough to get excited about it. It doesn't have to be like that though. You can ship a ship and still enjoy the rest of the show. It's simply about how you decide to watch a show.

beyond that I think he's pretty celibate
Hmm. I think the Doctor is terrified of getting close to anybody, because he's so extremely different. Not only the mortal/not mortal thing - that's a big issue already; imagining having a life span of more than 1000 years and having to lose one "soul mate" after the other - but also the whole Time Lord thing. The Doctor knows and sees the whole universe. He's such a force of nature. A human mind would have a hard time grasping that concept, let alone understand it. Relationships depend on one partner understanding the other.

I think that's the thing with the Doctor and Martha - Martha might think she loves him, but he's just so much more than what she sees that he couldn't have a relationship with her without sort of patronizing her, if you know what I mean. Rose was different, she understood him better. In that case, I think the Doctor did not get into a non-platonic relationship with her because he knew he was going to lose her sooner rather than later. That might not have bothered him too much in one of his previous lives, but he's lost so much already, I think he was trying to protect himself.

The only ship where I can actually see non-platonic potential is Doctor/Jack. Jack is not mortal, at least not in the ways average humans are, and he has gathered enough life experience to have a chance to grasp what the Doctor actually is. The Doctor might see hope that this relationship wouldn't end with him heart-broken and still having to live through another however many life times.

He just can't commit like someone (Rose, Martha) would want him to
I think he could, he just decides not to. Hahaha, this loops back to my original entry! Yay! ;D I think he decided that he needs to widen his perspective as far as possible. If he concentrated on one relationship only, he'd miss out on all the (platonic) love he could get otherwise. Girl In The Fireplace is a good example for that. There he is, with Rose, who is someone very close to him, and then he goes and builds that connection with Reinette, because he thinks he can't afford to miss out on that contact.

I guess in my post, I was more or less talking about ships not necessarily as romantic relationships, but as 'I want the Doctor to be with her/him, and ONLY with her/him' attitudes. That's the sort of thing that caused all the Martha hate, and I just don't think it has to be in Doctor Who.

Hee, Doctor/Master is fun ;). Evil ex-BFs are always fun. But as I said, I do like fluff and nice things, so I couldn't focus on Doctor/Master entirely. Too dark omg!

And Star Trek wins. At everything ;).

Sorry for the long ramble! Doctor Who does that to me, lol ;)

[onceforluck.livejournal.com]

A human mind would have a hard time grasping that concept, let alone understand it.
Agreed. He's just too confoozing for our poor little ape brains. ;) But seriously, even if he wasn't a lord of time and space, 900 years is a big age gape. He's just on a different level than everyone, and he couldn't be understood the way you need to be for a real relationship.

Not to mention that 'watching the love of your life grow old and die' bit. That's pretty sucky, too.

I see the Doctor/Jack potential, but I still don't really ship it. Again, I just don't see Jack on the Doctor's mental level, it's just that whole lord of spacetime thing. Hard to match.

Girl In The Fireplace broke my heart. Reinette (IMHO) totally pwns Rose any day. I don't know why, really. I think I better be quiet about that before the Army Of Rose Lovers hunt me down and skin me. :( Anyway, I think it was just the connection the Doctor found with her so quickly. I totally agree with you about the platonic love thing. He needs to be able to find that connection, and a single relationship would hinder that.

I don't mind unrequited love FOR the Doctor actually. I'm an angst glutton that way. ;) So Martha's love for him didn't really bother me in theory, it was just overdone and shoved down our throats like woah.

Oh, and that goes for Jack, too. I like Jack loving the Doctor more than the Doctor loves him... ohh I'm terrible heehee XD

rambles are fun! ^^

[teyla]

Lol, you bad person, I bet you're one of those people who're rooting for Big Gay Wilson And His Unrequited Love For Manly Straight House. Which is just WRONG! ;D

Nah, unrequited love angst simply isn't my sort of angst. Mostly, it either bores or annoys me. My sort of angst is exactly the Doctor's angst - losing the people who understand you. A Time Lord can only be understood completely by another Time Lord. And he not only lost them, he killed them off himself. Angst fest! ;D

But then, that's a good thing, right, a show that covers all sorts of angst! Aww, Doctor Who, you iz making me sooo happy ;).

I just don't see Jack on the Doctor's mental level
Well, no, he's not 900 years old yet, lol ;). Have you seen any episodes of Torchwood yet? Because Torchwood!Jack is a lot angstier than DW!Jack. He gets a very long and elaborate background story, and it gives his character a little more depth and experience which makes the Ten/Jack ship more plausible. Says I, anyways ;).

I'm not saying I'm shipping that ship as my OTP (as I said, no DW OTP for me ^^) because both the Doctor and Jack are SO not the type to settle down and get a house with a white picket fence and a golden retriever. I think, though, that they could have the sort of relationship that's above any platonic or non-platonic flings either of them get up to. Beer and pizza plus a good shag every time the Doctor drops by for a pit stop - and maybe some sort of line of communication for emergencies. That's how I think it could work.

Reinette (IMHO) totally pwns Rose any day
Hee, just watch out - I'll report you to oh_she_knows *gg*. I think I agree with you though. I liked Rose, she was fun, and smart, and she made the Doctor happy which makes her okay in my book ;) - but Reinette was just a lot classier. Rose and the Doctor had something on a very emotional in-verbal level, while Reinette and the Doctor shared that plus a certain intellectual match (of course, as a Time Lord, the Doctor was still worlds smarter than Reinette, but the potential of brilliance was there in Reinette, if you know what I mean). I think that's what made the Reinette/Doctor ship so popular even though she only showed up in one episode.

Yays! Tell me when it gets to much, though. I can go on like this for days ;)

[onceforluck.livejournal.com]

Well, I wouldn't mind Big Gay Wilson and His Unrequited Love, if I wasn't so set on bisexual!House. House loves women, but no one's going to convince me that he's totally opposed to men. More specifically men with big eyebrows and superman poses.

I have seen all of Torchwood, thanks to a certain really awesome someone who sent me the entire season! XD I don't care what anyone says, I think Torchwood is awesome, and I'm really really looking forward to the second season.

Beer and pizza plus a good shag every time the Doctor drops by for a pit stop - and maybe some sort of line of communication for emergencies.
Mmm, that sounds like a great plan. ^^

I just have to make a little side comment about Torchwood, now: I really love the character dynamic in the show. I just think they work so great together. Gwen isn't my favorite character ever, but I do find her interesting. (The drugging her boyfriend scene! OMG!) Kind of the same way I feel about Owen. I don't especially like him as a person, but I enjoy watching him, and I think he's had some great scenes. And I'm a big Ianto fan. Can't help it, He's just so PRETTY OMG *fangirl flail*. I also get all happy when I see the Torchwood Slow-mo Walk of Cool. =D

*runs away from Teh Rose Army Loonies*

[teyla]

if I wasn't so set on bisexual!House
House is the most bisexual person who ever walked the fictional Earth of the House MD world. Even if he were actually straight, he'd be bisexual just out of SPITE. ;)

Hee, I was just asking about Torchwood in case you hadn't gotten around to watching it yet ;). I'm glad you enjoyed the DVDs! I liked the show too - it's not as awesome as Doctor Who, but it's definitely fun.

I really love the character dynamic in the show.
I know what you mean by that! I don't really have a character in Torchwood whom I like most of all - I do like Gwen, and especially her BF. I actually think that if I had to pick a favorite character, Gwen's BF would be it. But he isn't awesome enough so I'd watch the show only for him - as you said, it's the dynamics. It's not so much that the characters are awesome, but that they are interesting.

Hee, Ianto sort of slipped underneath my RADAR. Every time he shows up, I'm confused for a second before I remember who he is. I don't know why, but my brain simply refuses to file him away as a proper member of the Torchwood team.

I really like what they did with Jack, though. Angst for Jack, yay! ;) In DW s1, he was fun, but he wasn't exactly a character you could work with. Too simple. Giving him this whole angsty I-lived-through-the-20th-century-and-all-I-got-was-this-stupid-coat background really did wonders for his character. And brought him closer to the Doctor, which I can only approve of ;).

The Torchwood Slow-Mo Walk of Cool is all kinds of shades of awesome. So is their theme music. Have you noticed how they used that music in a couple of the late DW eps? So cool :D.

Mmm, that sounds like a great plan.
Someone should write it. Not me, though. I'm crap at relationshippy stuff like that. *shoos away plot bunny*

[wihluta.livejournal.com]

even if he wasn't a lord of time and space, 900 years is a big age gap.

hehe - I don't know much about DW yet. (I WILL SOON!!) but that makes sense even to me, because during my 'Highlander'-watching-phase (the show) I had similar thoughts about Methos (McLeod himself was always too boring to think about).

I also think that some shows are just not giving themselves over easily for ships. Sometimes you need the whole thing for it to be good.

[onceforluck.livejournal.com]

*waves* Hi there! XD

Oh don't worry, Doctor Who is really easy to catch up on! (and really easy to obsess over, too ;) )

I just started watching Doctor Who in early September, and was ZOMG SQUEE AMAZING nice enough to send me the three seasons on DVD so I could catch up on what I missed and see what hasn't aired yet here.

I also think that some shows are just not giving themselves over easily for ships.

True. I think it reflects good writing when you can still fangirl about a show without having an OTP.

[wihluta.livejournal.com]

*waves back* hi there too. :-)
glad you don't mind me joining in. ;-)

and yeah, I've heard a lot of great stuff about Dr. Who from t_eyla, too, and I already have the seasons lying next to my tv, I just need to find the time to start watching them. I guess I'll obsess quite nicely over DW, if it's just because they talk OMG!! british!!

I think it reflects good writing when you can still fangirl about a show without having an OTP.
yes, I very much agree! :-)

[teyla]

OMG!! british!!
And OMG!! Scottish!! And OMG MOCK!COCKNEY WITH SCOTTISH INFLUENCE!! ;D

*pets DT* He's trying ;).

We need to steal the TARDIS, methinks. Those exams need to be over, and you NEED to watch Doctor Who RIGHT NOW. Omg, I so CAN'T WAIT for the Christmas Special and the 4th season.

*squees a little. just because.*

[onceforluck.livejournal.com]

Yayy! British Talk!! XD

Just curious...Where are you from?

[teyla]

She's from Germany, too :).

Omg, remember how we talked about time slipping away, especially when uni papers are concerned?

I HAVE A PRESENTATION DUE TOMORROW AND I HAVEN'T DONE A THING FOR IT YET! I THOUGHT I HAD TIME TILL THE 22ND! *PANICS*

[wihluta.livejournal.com]

oh dear!!

hope your presentation went alright! *crossing fingers*

[teyla]

Actually, it did!

I was surprised myself... ;P

[wihluta.livejournal.com]

yep, like t_eyla said, I'm from Germany too.
But I just love Laurie Land to pieces. My one big goal in life (at the moment) is to migrate over to britain. At least for a while. :-)